i everyone it's are going to be here i love black and it's so also

to see everyone here i've already like that bunch of people i've only have a

spoken swan i'll see

always

really awesome right

great to see a print anything you come a long way guys where great happy

this talk is basically meant to be a bit of a kind of a review

when i see is in terms of

developing the number three user experience so i must to gonna be talking about design

so could historical you know

i could've comedic different directions i could've talked about marketing

but it's designed is what i do

if i assume that most people you know who i am but if you don't

i'm a member of the circle design team so i

i spend my days

trying to figure out how to make non backed so

and i'm involved in

pretty much every aspect of

but now i'm from the channel settings applications all that stuff so i feel like

i'm involved in a nothing was to

have a pretty good sense of what's going on one example next

and the their inspiration for this talk i suppose is

i read online over the past six months or so we people being a bit

unsure about whether going what's coming up what's gonna be next and

personally speaking

i think it's pretty clear where we're going and

i think we've got well for to this or something's going on so i wanted

to talk about that to give people your an idea of what they can expect

feature

it should be set that's

what i'm gonna say here's another thing you

if you will

closely involved in the most of the stuff

we'll be already familiar to you i'm gonna try and bring it together in a

piece of ice so this talk is probably gonna be most interesting to those people

maybe on involved in right

the call what we very

one clarification before starts i'm talking about the future i'm not kind of looking for

five or ten years not looking for you know nothing about that you know

and some kind of post P C future nothing like that the future i'm interested

in is the immediate

so the next twelve to waiting not it's

i think that's tangible it's something that we can touch it's something that we can

talk about during this plot that we can think about whether we want to be

what we meet next year and strauss but

and i think that's

a more useful way to look at the future

"'cause" it's very easy to get can a call to bring some kind idle speculation

about what the future might hold so

what i really wanted to talk about is what kind of future we making and

what's we doing right now that will affect

so

and they talk about the future i suppose

have to start with an idea euro of

why do we wanna be what do we well where we you mean what do

we wanna feature to be like

and i don't want to on this for too long

but it's

i think it's important to say that i think know has

a really strong guiding vision

i think

when you talk to the members of this community

it's

it's quite inspiring to hear what motivates them

and if anything we are really motivated you know everyone work so hard and i

think that's because they believe in what we're doing

and i think the thing that motivates me and speaking to them and members of

the gnome project what seems to motivate other people is the idea of freedom

nothing that's really essentials what we do it

and what i talk about freedom here i don't just mean

producing for use of so i don't mean

releasing how that happens to be G P L

conforms to the free software definition in some shape before i think to know freedom

is more than that

it's about being independence

so you know

we all we don't have

we're not alone by particular company we have a independent foundation i think these are

really important both to how we work and what we're trying to achieve that is

to great software that anyone can participate equally everyone has the equal

opportunity to participate

and

i think well i experienced personally and i suspect to a lot of people in

the remote experienced is be amazing potential that has for creating opportunities both opportunities for

individuals and full companies and organization

and what we're aiming to do we not amused to extend that was opportunities to

as many people as possible we wanna put free software in people's hands on that

machine i don't touch it use it

and i think there are very few

free software projects that are trying to do that in the way that no means

we work across the staff we work with other organisations to make this

hands

so one with thinking about the future i think the measure that we use for

ourselves is

all we are advancing the cause are we bringing free software to more P

only making free software more relevance

and so when i go through what we're trying to achieve i think that's what

we're trying to do

no project was founded

of the fifteen years ago

and

our project came about because we thought that "'cause" there's a feeling within free software

that it was a risk

that they needed to be awfully free what they call back than a desktop part

and

i don't think that mission is changed in fact i think it's even more important

now than ever before

so

you know when we when we look around and see which gonna open source projects

the kind of you know it's

things that look right i mean we have things like android which is obviously a

so i don't think like one for free

so really the challenge was

right now is the same as it was when a project first began and i

think there's a real kind of

designed to make the world a better place

and

that's a desire the i think we have to fill with the actions we take

as if you

so

all needed a well is as important as have a

i think we have the really

helpful opportunity to do something important in terms of bringing freedom small people

so that's you know i think we did the important message there is that

you know we can become but even about the feature we can make the world

name can be a problem

so that's kind of what we wanna be

so the can

so the question then becomes well are we moving in that direction and i think

to a lot extent we are and we've made some amazing progress

and there's a lot of the future to become be confidence about

you know there's a lot of really cool stuff going on this project

and we

established a really good track record for us

and the key requirements i think for is to

make sure that nine three continues to be relevance continues to be interesting we want

more people to want to use no more organization to participate in the know project

and we won't warp you want to distribute know

and i think we're doing quite a good job of that

so one thing we can be concerned about for the future is that

no three will be even better than it is now

so it's around the nine three series

it releases been

a real step

like you know i write the release not and every really side by about is

this big long list you

and that's really exciting and

i think the

the user experience to work providing is been getting back to back

something that i see personally when i'm using it but i think the quality of

the feedback we've been getting about producing getting back to

we can be i think we can be reasonably confident that trend will continue in

the future so if we're thinking about why will be twelve or eighteen months down

the line then one thing that we can say with a reasonable amount of confidence

is the

we can have a better

products that we have now

which is pretty also "'cause" i think it's already pretty good if it's gonna be

getting better with each release that you know there's more reason to be optimistic that

i think more people are gonna wanna

used and three as a result of the work that we do it

i think it should be really i think it should be emphasised that

those improvements

and possibilities the we have the future of come about through the hard worker alarm

projects

all the computers work

you know we could have very easily been in the situation when names techniques that

you

that hasn't happened if anything

the development rights is increased

and that's been logically the dedication and hard work

of the people in this project

so i think the needs to be you know i wanna say thank you and

i wanna say well done

the dedication the commandments of the people i work with on this projects is just

been absolutely amazing we could have been in a much worse situation we have today

it could have been you know we could things could have been really terrible

the fact is the is the community and that hard work

the sports the pitch assurance value what we have really great product it's getting better

all the

and

i'm just i'm just always totally blown away by how hard everyone well

people really going beyond the call that you to you know when i think about

people like

the partially jasper giovanni who just like do like amazing things by every really slight

like the that holding is poured into the future and those people to be congratulated

and i think it's pretty down someone's to let those people know how much we

appreciate the work that doing so

i

so if you see any of those people this conference by the be a i

think have been a lot promises to be a

complete with lori and i think like is gonna be suffering it all the promises

like actually become true some of these parties we're gonna

so you know well the keep going you know we're gonna be getting bathroom

and the i think the next thing we can be confident about the future is

the assembling them three will be done

i that's kind of i mean i don't mean don't in the sense of my

we can all like go on a popular holiday this is no more work to

be done but it is true to say the them three is a work in

progress and

i think the last familiar with

all the initiatives that would doing in our looks like it release we have a

round and you set of features like change some things and

and it's like it's like this kind of

six months sure

but in actual fact what we're doing is we're building something

and for those of us who are designing and three and trying to chop the

calls or

is play the will making really good progress in terms of putting the individual building

blocks together

and a lot of those call building blocks and one place you know we've made

some really good programs i think the core user experience like the

the shell and settings that's been a focus for a while and that's been getting

better and now we're looking at the other parts still need to be completed and

that's mostly in the application space

and i'll talk a little bit about our progress or

but

and they the important point to make right now is that

a some point is will be done right someone will get to a stage where

know three has a is a very cohesive integrated experience what everything is a clear

place

well at their basic capabilities that will fill then well we have that sets of

consistent really nice applications

and i think one we reach that mall

we will kind of appreciate according to shift

and will provide

because when you use something that is integrated is a whole line it's come system

it's coherent what it feels like a system has been designed as a whole it

will feel

light just also basically like i think model turnaround at some point and think i

was and this is what they were doing all

this is really cool and that's kind of the point working to know and i

don't think without power of i think it's something that we can hope to achieve

in the next

twelve to eighteen months and again we're making good progress so at some point will

get to this point well known three will i feel i have much more likely

come here now as a designer i find that to be really exciting prospect

and i'm gonna talking about how we can get

so with that making progress

experience is getting better

i think we have a lot to look forward to over the next twelve twenty

team at the logistic challenges this is tasks that need to be taken care of

this obstacle so we need to have a come

and the rest of the talk i'm gonna describe a little bit about what i

see is the next steps in terms of

the design of them three and my hope is to try and

and of

simply people about what they need to

so as i was alluding to a second are gonna i think the key challenge

for is right now is to round out the pick-off applications that

you know that i have the still what to be done on setting was an

on the shell that's

actual people really need that's what we provide the

main functionality domain features the people use on a daily basis

so this is on this is the

the existing

core applications that i've kind of great out the applications that they're gonna exist by

exist i mean haven't been released as possible and i'm so there's some things in

here that

carried exists you can run these applications but they're not something that we bundle up

and

and people to in schools

there

and

so that's the situation right now with the right now kind of things missing and

this is the

well

i'd like to see anything

and what you can see here is that

maybe go back for

but

some existing applications have been great out here last because we're looking to do is

consolidate them all

it's a great that functionality an existing application

some third new applications here the lot hoping will come to light

well i'll go through this another remote it's well

so this is michael a to do list for but complications that divide into three

missing got a number

so the missing applications up things we don't have in any shape or form

right now and again i'm what i'm talking about here is in the state whether

can be released

and so the music photos of

helen that we don't need some of these are probably low priority ones was the

top of the list here i think pretty high priority maybe if you have someone

else to get different kinds

that's where

it should be said the word making fantastic progress on this i mean if we

talk about is having vision and direction mean this is a really good of illustration

of how we are working community because there's a lot applications only about are actually

being what's on the not that often release so music is happening photos so well

no calendar all of those things exist right now are interactive develop

so like that's why you applications

straight away

like pretty amazing when you

so the second have to real applications i need to be working on a difficult

and the apps the time got and is this if you're this around i am

and that kind of

no that gathering dust them they look a bit like that

and i think one of the challenges froze

as the community used to make sure that these applications don't stay the button for

a

because

one of the important things about

providing a really high quality user experience is making sure that every aspect of that

experience it is a party quality you know it doesn't reflect well on as if

someone is using we have to they like and they used some utility and it's

like what was

so

and particular some of the application on the bottom of the last

i've got right if your attention in recent years and i think that's because you

know that look utilities that people don't use a huge amount

but it's really it's was to make sure that we get them

they should be set we have designs all this site funniest and most work on

any of this

and then please

we will give you guidance will give you market and hugs and you

about that you application to the top of this precise apricots and sorry best

bastion is working video size happening so i don't be forgotten is in

you know that maintains and forgot that got some in terms of looking about action

and then row which is possibly

i could app about that is not meant to be disparaging comments

and so these are the applications which

i don't feel

should be in the call applications as they are now

and some of these are what we want to do solidly them so for example

the system on it and this case each analyse and that's gonna is similar enough

to combine them into the single application we've got some rough designs for what we're

calling usage

i'll be really nice just cutting down the number of the utilities that we have

is generally helpful i have things like file rollers something that we'd really like to

do integrate that direct splints and also so if you're not familiar with the twelve

dollars for a car

extract

opening them and that kind of thing and i think we have to have a

decent student working on some of so eventually i'm gonna have a well we kind

of just

disappear

and you want i mean they can exist you know i can carry on existing

we wanna use it but we wanna make to support for that's and the in

the old so people don't need to

and likewise for events and i have no i definitely about features applications but

i would really like to do is

integrate that functionality directly and finals that's what we do previewing viewing and

out again mean few applications the people to do with more can conveniences integrated file

manager

and i would hope we have the developers of those applications to maybe doing more

interesting things there

so that's kind of that's kind of the one of the major to do it

mystified right now

they're definitely applications on here the a and developments and

need a helping and i think like that some common there are a good example

that we also applications what we have designed and the looking a big old fashioned

that we want help and i think

she's hard to map probably quite good that

and this will be you design so that's market suck you mock ups

this is what's

i'm happy looks like now kind of all fashion multiple windows that all kinds of

issues with this we wanted to shift so much more than conversation based application we

have designed this

and what would like a

much more based around that contents rather than i'm sorry

and single window application

what you can easily view history and things like that which

you can't really do nowadays

the character on there

will or so many things here

kind of how to use the some of

very old fashioned

you

shiny nice

application is really focused on what people are interested in which is different kinds accounts

as

right

so if anyone wants to work and get in touch

so applications

one of the things i think that is crucial to the future of them and

three

user experience to mix but word

and the next major to do list item is

toolkit

and again this is another area where

we have been working in that i coordinated

manna driven manna towards the

specific goal which is

to produce right applications based on the model set of design patterns

making a easy for other people to produce the right up

it's a look at is really essential to that's

and this projects been going on for some time you know very early in the

ninth reece series we started

prototyping and new applications and they been able as we've figure that works doesn't

and that is design patterns of in fact and so

it's a new widgets

new user interface element

and a lot of those

have started to appear now i mean we're making great progress already in G T

K we have me which it's like the

but listbox we'll

so you know those things are which making much easier to create say

a more than a room application

so what one of the challenges pros of the next year

and hopefully even seen that is to

all those new which is that we need for the new applications in C G

T K

and that is kind of slide

it's like topless

and again you know we're making good progress had a boss exist hoping to get

those

grits we talk about replacement after the icon view there is a

a prototype which i already that exists for that

to have some pop over is a look more speculative

there was to top items of the really important

and this what is really important not just to enable us to create applications but

also to enable us to build an effective developer experience

we can document help to build an arm application

into we have which is the unnecessary be able to build

we calculate tools to create as applications

if the which is don't exist

you know we wanna have things like template applications and

tools to generates those templates

what we have

we have the list on the we can

that is that is

i've been building that in the past couple of weeks

so this is this is really important both for the user experience and the developer

experience

and the same we can do this the sooner we can start documents act so

i am working on a new version of the egg once we have these widgets

time we can we can start i'm always up we can put the online we

can show people have to make their own applications and i think know again deal

people so we think at this point are right so this is what i've been

doing having just but in kind of messing around and playing with new kinds of

applications the no one else do

and that's really important

so again markets very quickly because that's is the that had a bus you can

see them already and

some shape or form and some them application right now it's essentially

a combined toolbar and window type

and

has all kinds of properties which make kids

appropriate promote an application so one of the on most obvious ones is that it

cuts down on the height of the application

to traditionally read toolbar and menu bar and then window title

lots and lots of pro so we have less crime

it's also just lines be much more dynamic so no and some the you often

see in more than applications is different views and paging and switching between different perspective

some continents and that had a bar is designed to allow this so we will

updates depending on what you're looking at

you can see this in the new designs

try documents try musical for it service and you get a clear clever idea

how had to pass fits into the picture

and that wraps our new type widget we've been working on the design point of

view yes

and one of my tasks to this quite back is to

sit down where john and can open whoever else comes to join as and

how shall the final details of the design i think about eighty percent that

yes will be really contest

something really

so two major to do items applications

so cats

and the final one is a biggie and it's not something i'm really qualified to

talk about so anyway a few know in any technical detail

as since this project again we've always struggled with

application definition just

is one a it's been a actually heels right again

it is so on or two

developed an application phone i'm gonna help to use

and

throughout history of we have some of this all uses of stuff that application developers

have suffered

and i think now is the time for is to take on that challenge

and

come up with the proper the framework for developing and distributing applications

and

this is something we've been talking about a lot

we had really long ball about the last year we talked about more the application

developer

application developer X variance access in brussels

and is something that is being worked on and let it will be talking about

his work

on the sound boxing side of it

we have a lots of

since we talked about this last year we solidified a lot and we have a

fairly clear roadmap what needs to happen

to get as well we need to be

i'm gonna be having above on it or what

and

this is just so important for feature we have to make it so the there

is relevant to application developers

and that means providing them with it's a staple labia api be

and

there is a user experience aspect to this as well because

you know i don't think it's acceptable first deciding to uses the application that you're

using has little life spend six months

i mean that's just crazy and that's what we've been doing for the entire history

of this project

so we have to so this upright users in terms of giving them and stability

in the applications to the using

the i thing is that we really need to take on and challenges around privacy

and security with because what applications right now a security story is this kind of

nonexistent

and the some boxing stuff but manages working on is he that and i you

know i really feel the privacy and security are an important part user experience

and given that web position and as free software solution then we ought to be

doing a better job of that

and this also has implications but user experience in terms of performance and stability and

things like that

once you some box applications you can decide how much of your system's resources to

get you can make sure the focus applications can always run quickly and smoothly and

snappy and everything else this isn't something we can be right now so

if we can get all of these things in place it i think it will

genuinely transform

but the user experience on the development

so there's a lot there's a lot of what needs to be done here there's

a lot of groundwork and we're talking to people who actually send these things the

there's a lot of kind of basic things that we need to do to get

us of orange shape

well i think mobile gonna have to do

during the ball is come up with

road map for the things they are outstanding and if you're maintainer of any know

them want you is probably something we you can do it helps a chip in

getting will this is the future

i really believe

so

that's kind of

i think there's a lot of things we got for to would be making really

good progress

no three compared to a year ago or eighteen months ago is just somewhat better

and if you project cell phones the future i don't see any reason why we

can't continue on that trajectory

with the cat we have that we need to make sure a countries as remain

committed unmotivated

something that everyone can help with by

encouraging them congratulate or

and

speaking as a designer i think this is kind of a kind of a critical

point because

we've been working on i'm three for a while now we have these can along

running projects

and quite a few of them starting to come to freshen in one shape or

form that we have these you know applications we have these new widgets we have

an application some boxing they want some right now by all of these things the

light you might simple were impossible eighteen months to two years ago

and the challenge for is now is to

bring as long as the projects to fortune and

really turn i'm three into the experience i think we've all hopes that it would

be a and i think could be like that and to get into we

to get so

that's pretty much it

i wrote the whole conference we have off some older these topics the i've talked

about so totally talk to be of the developers

if there's any way the you can make some of the things that i talked

about how

then that would just be amazing and

i look forward to the conversation the rest of the conference

thanks

do we have time for questions

that's great about technical stuff

any questions

with the new tab design you feel that's getting to a point where it's ready

to start being implemented or do you is it still kind of in a really

staged i know like that at design pages there's still like a lot of options

round well all i mean i think all the key by there is no decided

upon and one sticking point is

the visuals so what you'll seen in the markets is different visual treatments of the

terms but in terms of actually how we want work up in the pretty much

decided and

in one of the things i need to do question this document

been talking about this for a while but it's hard design problems

and tracking a feels about i think you'll be really

i think it's really important because the currents helps this but there are some issues

and they really helped with

i don't and

couple questions the

how you feel about

i in what's the difference between i can even be new grid being in one

should i use it instead of the egg you i'm sorry please in documented everywhere

all over the place this kind of the first time i actually hear about it

so the main thing about so it is that we wanted to be response

so and right now with any

i company gets you got and even spacing you don't get all this allocated space

used the icons always the same size of the thumbnails always the same size

and when you compare that's where you see in the where you know so you

basically want to sales to be not all the same size all this

the same size to be the same across the columns

this sounds might be different sizes but the key point is that they should resize

vividly so if you have a small and you should get an appropriate number of

columns and at an appropriate cell size if you that expand the window you'll get

more columns but maybe that sells will adjust in size to fill the space

so i'll be a kind of more can do it response

i mean i mean one really good example of this is part where you really

want your own nails to be as big as possible and fill enticed by and

right now you cat kind of a big margin of one side because it's not

by using all space and you can pick spaces between the if you make the

window resize

you just re floaters rather than

optimising for that particular time and

it's if you're familiar with the list box

kind of designed to be great com that somebody so another issue with the current

i come here is very hot which is slide so in some of the designs

we have things like but i also icons which is a lot of the you

know we have the same clocks is basically impossible to do i

well one of the biggest concerns that most applications developers have with the i can

you in that we do is the kind of car incompleted to use so i'm

hoping in some way that it's not gonna be any harder than it is the

you check and you models and at the same time i'm actually concerned about the

formants that because i can do indicate three has a pretty terrible performance if you

try to wrap in the ad six hundred items in it is gonna be a

disaster so just keep that in the back of your mind folks miss an opportunity

to the all we would

company is currently working on this

so the go a

G T K and sow is to get rid all sat around us like

not tomorrow but

everything liked review and i can view it something that was a good idea five

years ago

at

we find the limitations of it now and listbox is the first step of the

direction of replacing

finding ways that we can do all the want to do

and finding replacement all the i can use the second set of course this is

all performance relevant so it's going to take time and we need to figure out

right at eyes so you don't run into the same problems

you it it's because writing widgets that contain lots of stuff

but

we can just carry weights our enter is you real widgets and i we going

to make it

but we don't want

that's

so counselling has hell i

as opposed fixed to every told what i

you

anyone else

not that i guess i so

right has

and you

i was just wondering but your folks about today so it's morning ski notes and

so what them up and what he said the about the community and

our go for works

the know important what are your thoughts

i think i just

so that

are you know i mean look at the development progresses i am i mean it

releases

by pretty amazing i mean comparatively

some of the nancy releases and we're doing so much more use

i have things are getting better all the time is the results of that

i think

we've got reason to be optimistic on that basis but you know obviously there are

challenges and

i think

but i think you know as a community were facing up to those we've got

lands we've

called kind of long term

and it's a going on than making good progress time to address

some of the issues that we currently facts

and i think that the challenge first just to get behind them and

like keep moving at the speed that we

firstly of a you know make a know yes but

friendly and welcoming atmosphere but apparently some people

from outside will you don't really well i mean that's all problem domain

you know it's all to industry about this he's been trying to do without since

the no one day so it's nothing you that

i mean i maybe i should go to marketing to look

that's that

but i mean we have work to do that i can i mean the marketing

team is more active now than it has been in years and we're doing a

lot of things it's glottic low

i think help now we got some great volunteers in the room well locking we're

gonna be doing interviews are gonna be

how you doing some videos and stuff so that we can show the world that

we're actually not like demonic actually real nice friendly people

well

hi what's the way deprecation story in is it see parade or distinct from the

implication distribution story like a single instance with it's if you wanna have crime as

a gym our system and since we met for example

so

we would make some progress that i mean you have web apps

and i think one thing that we've been talking about it would like to do

is integrate web apps and whatever software distribution

framework that we come up with i've been talking to richard about this is what

software and that we really wanna have web apps and alongside right so

you know you can

you can search that with a and you will get that with the web and

a lot of the technology to do not exist already it's actually not to do

you

i think that's you know that's really valuable

i think if you really powerful for us

i use about that is that right

and you know i mean that's thanks all the work we have you guys are

doing and

that just than some amazing stuff we have like to now and

you can you can sets of single instance web that's right so

address

your

i was and is that here is about the details that a at dream of

the application separate the thing we share so i was i was a bit curious

about like the you had the list of the applications which are more they're very

like

local centre but a local file system right instead of like than you guys that

have like your local place system and also like the files

in the cloud

and so i would always curious like if you could give any details on your

thoughts about like how

how to local like pdfs would work for example because you can then mention briefly

like having it embedded in files

is it like very sketchy right now that would like to get are already have

we have

most of those things are relates to but we do have designed for this so

should be said that one of the katie goals would be the you close an

application just to make sure that everything is

on the web enabled all integrate all money one this is one of very key

things that do see you application given us and you already see and document so

documents you can do you

documents on your laptop but they will also learn google dot so talks in the

any other online account you have

we're aiming to do that with music with our turns with videos

and that's a really importance

go for those of these you applications will enable us to do that we hopefully

items will be released and three tylenol have like a simple so you can access

all you like about others like that you feel like that's all right to that

which is like pretty also right

but the question about previewing in finals i think is

just mention it's i rescuers but i mean we already having have previewing to sushi

right i have we wanna make that kind of preparing much better integrated and much

more part of the typical work flow of using files you know if you wanna

deal with finals you wanna be elton spectrum you wanna know what each file is

and so that requires can looking inside well right and

so we still want to be

improving that experience making the local solution as good as it can be and that's

will files is will but then the idea is that we have these other applications

that go beyond the local of integrates

stuff that's up in the clouds that's also

on your machines are and this is another wine which we're trying to make the

applications consistent some right now for example documents

you can view all your code you can see like we'll content like agreed to

list but you can also actually

read each documents

so we're looking to have something similar inside will tell us

we can talk about

can i ask another one

is there that i think i mean

i think i don't think i'm gonna be asking the question everyone wants to know

is very design come about

i a

well its kind

the same is the switch conspiracy right there is a i designed you know swedish

conspiracy i mean cost not

i mean is a funny thing the people talk about this

because

that it's not how i work it's not how we think about ourselves

me and john and share mac and a kind of identified as the designers but

we do lots of other things other than design and most of the

people who aren't identified as designers are designed as well like

like "'cause" i'm a and you have on a and all these you and everything

that we dare is available online and

free for everyone so look at you know you just look at out of get

proposed rates was being checked and it's not hard to see what we're up to

like there are no secrets

i think i mean

we don't seem to communicate what we're doing in terms reservations returns be here each

individual step that's next of but

i mean anyone can participate i mean we've got a bunch of

people here i think i wanna cable design

there are gonna be spending some time with during the conference

we have design friends and some of the projects i was hit amount about

we'll be talking to him variance are like

i mean

so it's really is pretty are we all twenty one week everyone's but both

it's easy to say that way if you don't really

have a good sense of what's going on is like one of these easy generalisations

thank you

alright we don't

okay