| 0:00:00 | in |
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| 0:00:14 | gridlock |
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| 0:00:15 | it's a word that evokes images the frustration in paralysis |
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| 0:00:19 | for congress gridlock as increasingly become business as usual |
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| 0:00:24 | partisanship and the ideological polarisation have stymied efforts defined compromise and solve the nation's most |
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| 0:00:31 | pressing problems |
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| 0:00:33 | here with me today to discuss the gridlock dilemma is sarah bender |
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| 0:00:38 | professor of political science a colombian college and a senior fellow in governance studies at |
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| 0:00:43 | the brookings institute |
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| 0:00:46 | she specialises in the study of congress political parties and the causes and consequences of |
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| 0:00:51 | legislative gridlock welcomes their great exactly sarah let's start by defining legislative good how would |
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| 0:00:58 | you defined and one you find this topic so intriguing |
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| 0:01:01 | we are when we thinking about layers of stalemate for gridlock we haven't minus sense |
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| 0:01:06 | that they're the things on the congressional agenda |
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| 0:01:09 | global warming immigration tax reform time performed they things only gender but they don't get |
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| 0:01:15 | done in that source sensor paralysis or stalemate right things the majority's agree surely speech |
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| 0:01:20 | talked about in at the end of the day at the end of the congress |
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| 0:01:23 | is been a proper |
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| 0:01:25 | why do i study it oddly enough i wrote a book almost fifteen years ago |
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| 0:01:30 | about let a set of gridlock right why sometimes congress remarkably productive the great society |
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| 0:01:35 | the new deal and why we times as it mired in gridlock i the nineteen |
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| 0:01:39 | nineties of clinton and the republican congress |
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| 0:01:42 | that i know that was nothing i small potatoes compared to the gridlock that we've |
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| 0:01:47 | seen today so it's interesting to me why we see increasing levels of gridlock in |
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| 0:01:52 | why does it become |
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| 0:01:53 | such a problem around converse a stack |
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| 0:01:56 | this is absolutely fascinating and must ask |
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| 0:01:59 | is the level of gridlock worse than ever basically because the based on the number |
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| 0:02:03 | of lost that are passed |
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| 0:02:04 | and the legislation has been an active |
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| 0:02:07 | whether two ways to think about the question one is a big historical view would |
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| 0:02:11 | one is more sort of resend contemporary congresses the big historical view right today's conscious |
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| 0:02:16 | which up the number down manually to follow the debt but it that's of the |
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| 0:02:20 | word error rate is so i think is always important keep in mind we talk |
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| 0:02:24 | about all unprecedented still made we've seen a lot worse |
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| 0:02:27 | historically we never wanna read i wanna go we do one go back there having |
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| 0:02:32 | said that so i'm a measure of deadlock right what a big issues on the |
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| 0:02:36 | on the agenda from the forties to the present and what percent word deadlocked at |
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| 0:02:41 | the end of the congress |
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| 0:02:42 | if you look at that measure over time goes up and down up and down |
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| 0:02:45 | but incrementally goes up and then when we reach the last congress seventy percent that |
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| 0:02:51 | lack of the main issues of the da in there actually is unprecedented |
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| 0:02:55 | we see variation over time but something is that it's off kilter in the extent |
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| 0:03:00 | to which these parties find themselves unable to come to the table |
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| 0:03:04 | so serve clearly we've had a government shutdown |
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| 0:03:07 | so what you see are the long term |
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| 0:03:11 | well i think they're number reasons why we should care about congresses inability to govern |
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| 0:03:16 | here are the difficulties it faces |
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| 0:03:18 | first of all just as from a micro level if you're sitting the department transportation |
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| 0:03:22 | and you wanna be able planar budget it can't |
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| 0:03:25 | right in from here to here we might think that cover work better if they |
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| 0:03:29 | could see the long term in clearly they can't if you can account of budgets |
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| 0:03:32 | going up and the can't yes even estimate right what about just going to look |
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| 0:03:37 | like so that's a problem second in a policy world right there are big problems |
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| 0:03:42 | that get worse by not addressing the |
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| 0:03:44 | in certainly climate change global warming acts like a prime example you don't address it |
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| 0:03:49 | now |
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| 0:03:51 | but problem gets worse and worse and it gets worse and worse because you are |
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| 0:03:55 | taking any steps at least that's of the sign this tell |
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| 0:03:59 | and third from a democratic perspective right papa confidence in contrast is really low i |
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| 0:04:04 | think the number nine percent ten percent and as some people joke like a thousand |
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| 0:04:07 | folks work on the hill or my brother right there is there is there is |
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| 0:04:11 | such low approval of congress that there is problematic in a democratic local system where |
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| 0:04:17 | we count on |
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| 0:04:18 | people supporting rip local station |
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| 0:04:20 | based on your research |
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| 0:04:23 | one is at the root of legislative stalemate |
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| 0:04:27 | is partitioned |
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| 0:04:29 | well the couple issues here we see the historically over a long period first of |
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| 0:04:34 | all party control points and i give divided government one party split gets why have |
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| 0:04:39 | super i guess the congress sometimes is put the countries |
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| 0:04:42 | some as unified party control so the first two years about ministrations large democratic majorities |
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| 0:04:47 | just like we had a new deal just that we have a great society the |
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| 0:04:50 | pre-tonic the difference right part is can you know i don't parts grounds and on |
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| 0:04:54 | electro grounds and then make things happen |
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| 0:04:56 | that's first problem |
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| 0:04:57 | second we have a problem by cable as a right they tend to the system |
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| 0:05:01 | but sometimes the house and senate see eye to eye sometimes they really don't include |
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| 0:05:05 | last two conversation with the republican house in a democratic senate that system but that's |
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| 0:05:10 | obvious that's constitutional right we have two chambers but it makes coming to the table |
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| 0:05:15 | really harm |
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| 0:05:16 | and third the overwhelming reason here is we have the position of the two political |
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| 0:05:20 | parties write something that we haven't seen like this is probably a good thirty forty |
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| 0:05:25 | years |
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| 0:05:26 | and that makes cup finding common shared and logical ground i think there is no |
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| 0:05:31 | shared ground in the absence of that overlap between the party right |
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| 0:05:36 | lots of democrats to see oral approach conservatives lots of republicans were liberals and conservatives |
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| 0:05:40 | we don't have |
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| 0:05:42 | we have liberal democrats conservative republicans |
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| 0:05:45 | that makes it very heart |
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| 0:05:47 | first "'cause" i don't agree and second multi party competition right i'm not gonna green |
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| 0:05:51 | are not gonna endorse that because that part endorsed it and so some of the |
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| 0:05:55 | stressed at each week |
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| 0:05:56 | nobody wants a half a loaf now we want to compromise could prefer to hold |
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| 0:06:00 | off the whole both when they control cover |
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| 0:06:03 | that's a recipe for still |
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| 0:06:04 | is there anyway we can break through |
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| 0:06:08 | so they're number of ways to think about this |
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| 0:06:12 | first large-scale electro change one party gains control house senate white house |
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| 0:06:18 | that will and stick a little bit of what of the logjam right just in |
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| 0:06:23 | part because the parties then go this is our this is over chance to get |
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| 0:06:27 | the wanna do and then let voters right can structure on it two or four |
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| 0:06:32 | years later so one possibility select role big electro change |
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| 0:06:36 | second possibility a little less sanguine about this second it is it's an issue comes |
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| 0:06:40 | through that the cats the party and we've seen historically by the was slavery or |
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| 0:06:44 | whether it was a great society right there that their issues here that could come |
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| 0:06:48 | immigration reform possibly |
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| 0:06:50 | i think most people are sky sceptical that the two parties would ever curry be |
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| 0:06:55 | able to come to the centre |
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| 0:06:57 | the third way to think about it though is that |
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| 0:06:59 | never do make progress on issues despite polarisation right |
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| 0:07:04 | they that they have to have a reason to come to the table right government |
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| 0:07:08 | shutdown what and it'd republicans had there right tail between their legs because the public |
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| 0:07:13 | in public said you want to black and one party wins that messaging |
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| 0:07:20 | parties come to the table and that a very hopeful of some sort of pragmatic |
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| 0:07:25 | way of thinking about things and but it is what gets the job done right |
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| 0:07:29 | it gives parties both parties an incentive to come to the table you the one |
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| 0:07:33 | is not a lot overlap between |
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| 0:07:36 | well legislative gridlock is certainly a topic that we care about because of its impact |
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| 0:07:40 | on our daily lives |
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| 0:07:42 | there would be sharing |
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