in

gridlock

it's a word that evokes images the frustration in paralysis

for congress gridlock as increasingly become business as usual

partisanship and the ideological polarisation have stymied efforts defined compromise and solve the nation's most

pressing problems

here with me today to discuss the gridlock dilemma is sarah bender

professor of political science a colombian college and a senior fellow in governance studies at

the brookings institute

she specialises in the study of congress political parties and the causes and consequences of

legislative gridlock welcomes their great exactly sarah let's start by defining legislative good how would

you defined and one you find this topic so intriguing

we are when we thinking about layers of stalemate for gridlock we haven't minus sense

that they're the things on the congressional agenda

global warming immigration tax reform time performed they things only gender but they don't get

done in that source sensor paralysis or stalemate right things the majority's agree surely speech

talked about in at the end of the day at the end of the congress

is been a proper

why do i study it oddly enough i wrote a book almost fifteen years ago

about let a set of gridlock right why sometimes congress remarkably productive the great society

the new deal and why we times as it mired in gridlock i the nineteen

nineties of clinton and the republican congress

that i know that was nothing i small potatoes compared to the gridlock that we've

seen today so it's interesting to me why we see increasing levels of gridlock in

why does it become

such a problem around converse a stack

this is absolutely fascinating and must ask

is the level of gridlock worse than ever basically because the based on the number

of lost that are passed

and the legislation has been an active

whether two ways to think about the question one is a big historical view would

one is more sort of resend contemporary congresses the big historical view right today's conscious

which up the number down manually to follow the debt but it that's of the

word error rate is so i think is always important keep in mind we talk

about all unprecedented still made we've seen a lot worse

historically we never wanna read i wanna go we do one go back there having

said that so i'm a measure of deadlock right what a big issues on the

on the agenda from the forties to the present and what percent word deadlocked at

the end of the congress

if you look at that measure over time goes up and down up and down

but incrementally goes up and then when we reach the last congress seventy percent that

lack of the main issues of the da in there actually is unprecedented

we see variation over time but something is that it's off kilter in the extent

to which these parties find themselves unable to come to the table

so serve clearly we've had a government shutdown

so what you see are the long term

well i think they're number reasons why we should care about congresses inability to govern

here are the difficulties it faces

first of all just as from a micro level if you're sitting the department transportation

and you wanna be able planar budget it can't

right in from here to here we might think that cover work better if they

could see the long term in clearly they can't if you can account of budgets

going up and the can't yes even estimate right what about just going to look

like so that's a problem second in a policy world right there are big problems

that get worse by not addressing the

in certainly climate change global warming acts like a prime example you don't address it

now

but problem gets worse and worse and it gets worse and worse because you are

taking any steps at least that's of the sign this tell

and third from a democratic perspective right papa confidence in contrast is really low i

think the number nine percent ten percent and as some people joke like a thousand

folks work on the hill or my brother right there is there is there is

such low approval of congress that there is problematic in a democratic local system where

we count on

people supporting rip local station

based on your research

one is at the root of legislative stalemate

is partitioned

well the couple issues here we see the historically over a long period first of

all party control points and i give divided government one party split gets why have

super i guess the congress sometimes is put the countries

some as unified party control so the first two years about ministrations large democratic majorities

just like we had a new deal just that we have a great society the

pre-tonic the difference right part is can you know i don't parts grounds and on

electro grounds and then make things happen

that's first problem

second we have a problem by cable as a right they tend to the system

but sometimes the house and senate see eye to eye sometimes they really don't include

last two conversation with the republican house in a democratic senate that system but that's

obvious that's constitutional right we have two chambers but it makes coming to the table

really harm

and third the overwhelming reason here is we have the position of the two political

parties write something that we haven't seen like this is probably a good thirty forty

years

and that makes cup finding common shared and logical ground i think there is no

shared ground in the absence of that overlap between the party right

lots of democrats to see oral approach conservatives lots of republicans were liberals and conservatives

we don't have

we have liberal democrats conservative republicans

that makes it very heart

first "'cause" i don't agree and second multi party competition right i'm not gonna green

are not gonna endorse that because that part endorsed it and so some of the

stressed at each week

nobody wants a half a loaf now we want to compromise could prefer to hold

off the whole both when they control cover

that's a recipe for still

is there anyway we can break through

so they're number of ways to think about this

first large-scale electro change one party gains control house senate white house

that will and stick a little bit of what of the logjam right just in

part because the parties then go this is our this is over chance to get

the wanna do and then let voters right can structure on it two or four

years later so one possibility select role big electro change

second possibility a little less sanguine about this second it is it's an issue comes

through that the cats the party and we've seen historically by the was slavery or

whether it was a great society right there that their issues here that could come

immigration reform possibly

i think most people are sky sceptical that the two parties would ever curry be

able to come to the centre

the third way to think about it though is that

never do make progress on issues despite polarisation right

they that they have to have a reason to come to the table right government

shutdown what and it'd republicans had there right tail between their legs because the public

in public said you want to black and one party wins that messaging

parties come to the table and that a very hopeful of some sort of pragmatic

way of thinking about things and but it is what gets the job done right

it gives parties both parties an incentive to come to the table you the one

is not a lot overlap between

well legislative gridlock is certainly a topic that we care about because of its impact

on our daily lives

there would be sharing