okay my means time to go through interaction

here today sanders risk connected you recent paper and symbolic interaction focused on relationship with

how

thank you very much here with us and talk state

should be top

together with you about what are the sixties how is present or

as well as your experiences

but is six use what was like the heyday of sociology so my cohort when

i came into northwestern and sixty six

head over sixty people

and how we how we come to what was to your before

so at a party bernie back says talk to predict back about what i'm interested

says you need to meet how it back or

and i at that time i didn't actually know how you back or was that

northwestern head

i read outsider's because i was kind of interest rate one

and

but i didn't where is the results of great

but i never

got to much cm other than you know like

in the halls

and tilt is filled fieldwork course that essentially everybody had to take

and it was it was a great course because you come in the first day

and how is there may be due to smoking at the time

you hold the cigarette as mouth and

squint against the smoke and there were twenty some odd students and he said

that we had

to by the next meeting get out into the have been in the field and

bring back a few minutes

none was seven with you

slightest i have the slightest idea what that meant

but it seems like

get kicked into the pool

that is

well some sometimes fire sometimes i swear it is i think it was very scary

for all of us and i think that's what's that the really the first important

lesson you learned doing fieldwork is that it incredibly scary

and it requires a lot of courage

one for all of us to involved kerching a less for me because i decided

i was involved in the club folk musician world so i decided that that's what

i've got

other people and certainly much students

and my fieldwork course or are really scared by the experience

it seems to me

for you please use a you know writers was somewhat but also location paper we

had a great intellectual

into a more pure approach

so

what we compare this specifically way you approach

however was very non directive

what we didn't read anything in the field were course he didn't say okay these

you're the text so this is stuff if the user articles you have to read

we just given up higher like a bibliographic pile

and if

few for some of that looked interesting to read it

or if it words you found to be useful

but most of what the course involved was

how we setting

what's been going on this week

and he would listen very carefully to this story sweet l is basically a narrative

process and he would

make points on the out of the stories

and so the learning was very kind of back and forth and we were as

responsible for the process of learning is as he wants

so was very

in the same way he views

a field work as an inter tree iterative process

he view the course itself as an iterative

i guess there's always you can be approached by your re one would be

the one proposed in particular

another would be

we use you can call type of self interest

motivation past

i feel for what we want to assume responsibility everything anything that might not directly

right he was very much against a going into the field with preconceived notions

having what he talked about is having an agenda

he wasn't it he wasn't really for a genders

i you can't going to any feel

without some kind of basic idea of what's going on there

but a lot of those if you're good field work are those basic ideas

go away pretty so you're new find

that that's not important but this other stuff that you had no idea about it's

really important

so how it talks about

what he called sentimentality and how you had to avoid sentimentality

which was essentially these preconceived notions of and political preconceived notions

better actors blinders so you don't see what's really important

and i one because there are very interesting for applications especially six

but first i wanna ask questions from

you comment on how we use my response stress clash

in this was a very interesting question answer how to the style we use six

for you have to use more how we how good i

i think being as smart as how it is

is a real advantage in doing that i think you one can pull it off

and i kind of half arsed way

by in the same way

and non directive psychiatrist pulls it off

or what do you think about that the send a private but how it was

much better than that he would

he would just toss out very small ideas but

what is that remind you well

i think were

what what's that like

this is something itself what is that like what you think that some like

did you get the feeling when he is

highly present with your answer

two

yes absolutely them he was very

very much

and that's a good field where it was very much focused on what was the

exchange was what's going on

and he was

indeed it is interesting "'cause"

he was not only it's

a good interviewer and this is something was really good about how a good interview

where is listening to you rather than thinking about the next thing he's going to

say and that's exactly the way how we work

okay

exactly

another question or rubber in this paper we describe how rather than the correlation between

your account

at the same time how is clearly needed for contributions

can you say anymore have brought to see sociology next round people

clearly doesn't make connections between what to the next

you can see criticises where

howie and i think you explicitly talks about the cs theory is kind of in

inconvenient necessity

then we never

we never really in a certain in this class talked about

theory explicitly at least early on

what we talked about is what people and how it how it says that a

very often

blinds us or

the flights us from seeing what's really going on that's what's important is that

people are doing things together and how they understand what they're doing in the meaning

structure that under words that

and

if you

go into the field thinking that you're looking for

institutional power structures and things like that

where the kinds of things you more about the ins as a sociologist you're going

be very disappointed "'cause" you won't see what you will see

are people doing things together so that's what you focus on one and it is

out of that

that should begin to see certain patterns

and it's out of those patterns that you begin to make sense of what's going

on and that's out of that sense making process

you begin to develop a which crudely we can call theory

in this is the main story transition some time transition still happens in this one

because i think

that might indicate that his mel

but you know how it is

more work on the right

you know coined the term or more

right so this is related to cultural sociologist at least organisation

i use that channel where variation

to describe ways the actors

tend to shape

in used in three years it's to define the relationship between structure

but the slow to fast but also show how he's making really theoretical genius

how he was always

one two

value poking convention malady in the i

so i'm i think

that is a hunch that he's

what sometimes might be seen as an entire theory

position

it's kind of poking conventional sociology i

but

what's really important just theory rather than understanding what's going on and some kind of

real well

but it certainly

he has major responsible for developing broad range or something

the what's crudely called labelling theory is basically

you know he didn't

think it up originally but he developed at important

the collective action the whole way in which collective action works in

the art world so various other kinds of productive world is really central to work

a whole lot of people are doing

the concept of more entrepreneurs is

as you know spread too wide variety of disciplines

so i again how it was not and tie theory he was just

and tie being

taken up solely with three

so

with regard how this approach to more complex plane

one for

this notion of what you say you bring to be too close

he just behind one of sentimental you explicitly then the next close to three interested

what you three your work house and she

i really finds himself wonders is a form

for some time

otherwise not able to see that stage

i think what how it was doing in talking about sentimentality and its dangers have

a lot to do with political tender the time and all the whole bunch of

us we're going in there you know right on brother and smash the state

and

the shape

for that was interesting

but

one at all of us to avoid those

preconceptions and see that stuff is what's important

and so in that sense if the freedom derives from not be found by preconceptions

not being bound by convention l t not being down by

everyone knows is the case of one party was always attacking

but how is how it has always intact is the i d is that

what everyone knows

actually should have some weight

because what we use sociologist should do is look behind what everybody that

and you see that actually what everybody knows is

useful for song

oppressive to others and

but something that shouldn't should less be excepted

then something that is question

that's to include position is not necessary at all

exactly

and the political position

however it importantly made the distinction between

upon political position that one pass a person the as a person task

and the political position that one moves into their sociology

he was very much against the latter in very much for the former

you know is a look

what we should we don't if we think

races in this a bad thing

why in the world do we need sociology to prove that

we know what then i know i can fight against it as an individual citizen

in this society

but we don't the science to prove

oppression we don't need science to prove races and we don't need science to prove

the impression of you know gender

oppression

it we it's something that we as citizens can fight against

the that it's all that which side of you are you one notion that he

talks

final question from more

which was taken from how scepticism useful all actions label for i

just people to sociology particular just try

you might not be tall

to use it would be talking face interactions to right

we would never talk

about symbolic interaction isn't per se

and the like and

to talk about it but the theory courses and stuff but how we didn't talk

about symbolic interaction is a man and a lot of

his interview some of the center frequencies talks fairly negatively about interactions

and i think that's

because

we can see saul much of

inter the interaction is literature as getting away from what he thought was important as

getting into

the minutia of arguments about this year that only small element the theory

or

you know what need really meant by this

when he didn't have much patience for that stuff any i'd i don't think it

does i don't to get much patience for the kind of

things that came into interaction is sociology as

you know the post modernist face of interaction of sociology at the rabbits

that stuff as a

i that a bit beyond the kinds of things he was interest

and so is that one point he says well when i read symbolic interaction the

journal there's just not a lot in there that really interest me

and i think that's because it was getting away from

the basic notion of

interaction a sociology is actually what people do with each other day and a

project i think is important lesson personal

the only thing

no

i shall i a drill team journals can think

it's good beer

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